When voices resonate together, it’s not just to make music. That resonance can shake loose our bodies, our emotions, our relationships, and our power. Lee Hoffman is a professor of vocal music, choir director, and singer whose compassion, humility, and insight create spaces safe enough for everyone to use their voice. CW: Mentions of CSA, genocide, feminicide, anti-LGBTQ hate crimes Episode artwork &quot;Medicine Series&quot; by <a href="https://joyland.space/" rel="nofollow">Kill Joy</a> from the<a href="https://justseeds.org/graphic/medicine-series/" rel="nofollow"> Justseeds graphics</a> collection. Time stamps 3:24 Choir culture, safety and sound 14:14 Lee’s childhood in high control Christian churches 17:50 – 19:10 discussion of child sexual assault and religion 19:11 Homophobia, bullying and love as survival 26:54 Teaching voice and anti-racism 44:23 Singing as the doorway 49:09 Cathy Roma 52:19 Non-coercive leadership 1:02:58 Voice as anti-fascism 1:12:17 Silence as being with Links <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@leeehoffman" rel="nofollow">Lee Hoffman</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkUSKszgmEab6I2L-ot1XLA/videos" rel="nofollow">All Voices Choral Project</a> <a href="https://www.peaceandjusticechoir.org/" rel="nofollow">Peace and Justice Choir</a> <a href="https://youtu.be/QLixnB7CrJU?si=gltF707SjLfeU7NN" rel="nofollow">Peace for Gaza</a> by <a href="https://katieailes.com/press-interviews/" rel="nofollow">Katie Ailes</a> <a href="https://katieailes.com/press-interviews/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="https://www.kanopy.com/en/product/15108191" rel="nofollow">Joan Baez “I am Noise”</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuqRUdRZ428" rel="nofollow">“Watch and Pray” sung by Tamara-Lynn Richards</a> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmPKLZKZSZ0" rel="nofollow">Cathy Roma</a> <a href="https://www.wiley.com/en-us/A+Hidden+Wholeness%3A+The+Journey+Toward+An+Undivided+Life%2C+20th+Anniversary+Edition-p-9781394235070" rel="nofollow">Parker J Palmer A Hidden Wholeness</a> <a href="https://www.seedlingsong.com/p/about.html" rel="nofollow">Unschooling</a><a href="https://www.seedlingsong.com/p/about.html" rel="nofollow"></a> <a href="https://youtu.be/ahr8IJMjg1s?si=vYtDhWmmMQaK-gKB" rel="nofollow">“All of Us” from Considering Matt

CW: Mentions of CSA, genocide, feminicide, anti-LGBTQ hate crimes

1.8: What Can’t Be Taken: Voice & Community with Lee Hoffman

Supriya Narang is a play practitioner, witch, neurodivergent unschooling mom, soap artist, and community organizer. Supriya shares how the expectations and humiliations of motherhood changed her personally and professionally. She offers practical tips about community building, a feminist manifesto on neurodivergent motherhood, and a guiding principle of trusting—and seeing—the most marginalized people in our communities. <a href="https://www.instagram.com/thismum.life/" rel="nofollow">https://www.instagram.com/thismum.life/</a> wellbeingwithsupriya at <a href="http://gmail.com" rel="nofollow">gmail.com</a> Time stamps: 1:16 Neurodivergent community building 14:24 Play therapy 24:06 From corporate a**hole to feminist humility 41:02 Conflict and inclusion Support Untangling Ourselves by contributing to their tip jar: <a href="https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/untangling-ourselves" rel="payment nofollow">https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/untangling-ourselves</a> Find out more at <a href="https://untanglingourselves.com" rel="nofollow">https://untanglingourselves.com</a> This podcast is powered by <a href="https://pinecast.com" rel="nofollow">Pinecast</a>.<a href="https://pnc.st/s/untangling-ourselves/9bb1d62c/shifting-to-trust-with-supriya-narang/transcript">Read transcript</a><hr>

Feminism, Community Organizing, and Seeing Children

1.7: Shifting to Trust with Supriya Narang

Rayne shares a story about inner conflict, growing up autistic and surrounded by both disability rights advocacy and evangelical Christianity. They decided early on to “just take the demerit”: discovering that although it may sting, liberation is possible when—in an oppressive system of high control religion, ableism, and patriarchy—you decide to just get on with what you believe is right, regardless of all the ways the people in charge tell you that you’re wrong. Rayne is an ASL interpreter, consultant, and parenting coach, whose work is continuously informed by the Disability Justice principles and in particular disabled Black, indigenous, and people of color’s perspectives. “We can disagree and still love each other, unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.” -- Robert Jones Jr. 2:19 Learning ASL 23:04 Leaving Evangelical Christianity 34:34 Identifying as disabled and autistic 41:57 Learning disability justice 58:54 Practicing disability justice principles <hr> Rayne Depukat: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayne-depukat/" rel="nofollow">https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayne-depukat/</a> Disability Justice Principles: <a href="https://sinsinvalid.org/10-principles-of-disability-justice/" rel="nofollow">https://sinsinvalid.org/10-principles-of-disability-justice/</a> Heather Watkins: <a href="https://slowwalkersseemore.com/" rel="nofollow">https://slowwalkersseemore.com/</a><a href="https://slowwalkersseemore.com/" rel="nofollow">https://slowwalkersseemore.com/</a> Robert Jones at Son of Baldwin: <a href="https://sonofbaldwin.com/" rel="nofollow">https://sonofbaldwin.com/</a><a href="https://sonofbaldwin.com/" rel="nofollow">https://sonofbaldwin.com/</a> Robert Jones' substack, &quot;Witness&quot;: <a href="https://robertjonesjr.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">https://robertjonesjr.substack.com/</a><a href="https://robertjonesjr.substack.com/" rel="nofollow"></a> New Hampshire-Manchester ASL Interpreting Program: <a href="https://manchester.unh.edu/program/bs/aslenglish-interpreting-major" rel="nofollow">https://manchester.unh.edu/program/bs/aslenglish-interpreting-major</a> More on disability justice: <a href="https://stimpunks.org/glossary/disability-justice/" rel="nofollow">https://stimpunks.org/glossary/disability-justice/</a> Review of research on fathers of children: <a href="https://academic.ou

Ex-evangelical, disabled, autistic, ASL interpreter's story about inner conflict and accessibility

1.6: "I'll Take the Demerit" with Rayne Depukat

CW: References to child sexual abuse, religious abuse, and death due to systemic vulnerability. Podcast cover image by <a href="https://www.daveloewenstein.com/" rel="nofollow">Dave Lowenstein</a>, used under Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND Creative Commons License via <a href="https://justseeds.org/graphic/arise-together/" rel="nofollow">Justseeds</a>. Modified with podcast text. Dandelion Seeds: <a href="https://sacdandelion.org/" rel="nofollow">https://sacdandelion.org</a> 3:05 Andrea’s childhood catching lizards and being a good mormon 10:33 Why she was invested in Mormonism, and what made her leave 26:19 What is Mutual Aid and Dandelion Seeds’ work 37:35 Advice for getting involved and finding community <hr> Help for survivors of sexual assault <a href="https://www.childhelphotline.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.childhelphotline.org/</a> <a href="https://protecteverychild.com/" rel="nofollow">https://protecteverychild.com/</a> <a href="https://rainn.org/" rel="nofollow">https://rainn.org/</a> <a href="https://snapnetwork.org/resources-for-survivors/" rel="nofollow">https://snapnetwork.org/resources-for-survivors/</a> <a href="https://www.revitalizewellnesscounseling.com/blog/csa-in-the-church" rel="nofollow">https://www.revitalizewellnesscounseling.com/blog/csa-in-the-church</a> <hr> For leaving high control religion Steve Hassan’s “BITE model” <a href="https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/" rel="nofollow">https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/</a> National Domestic Violence hotline <a href="https://www.thehotline.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.thehotline.org/</a> Also see notes on Ep. 1 with Delia Other mutual aid resources: <a href="https://sacramentohomelessunion.org/" rel="nofollow">https://sacramentohomelessunion.org/</a> <a href="https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/" rel="nofollow">https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/</a> <a href="https://www.radical-guide.com/listing/punks-with-lunch-sacramento-chapter/" rel="nofollow">https://www.radical-guide.com/listing/punks-with-lunch-sacramento-chapter/</a> <a href="https://www.sac-soup.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.sac-soup.org/</a> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/SactoPPC/" rel="nofollow">https://www.f

Building community after leaving Mormonism

1.5: Mutual Aid with Andrea Schrimp

CW addresses gun violence Podcast cover image by <a href="https://landonsheely.com/work" rel="nofollow">Landon Sheely</a>, used under Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND Creative Commons License via <a href="https://justseeds.org/graphics/?js-movement=anti-ice" rel="nofollow">Justseeds</a>, modified with podcast title text. Support the artist <a href="https://philadelphiaprintworks.com/collections/art-by-landon-sheely" rel="nofollow">here</a>. 1:46 Statement from Becca Good published in the <a href="https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/09/renee-goods-wife-releases-statement-about-ice-shooting" rel="nofollow">Minnesota Star Tribune</a> 4:39 “On Learning to Dissect Fetal Pigs” by Renee Nichole Macklin Good, read by Andrea Schrimp 7:06 “Good” by Andrea Schrimp <hr> Sources: <a href="https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/09/renee-goods-wife-releases-statement-about-ice-shooting" rel="nofollow">https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/09/renee-goods-wife-releases-statement-about-ice-shooting</a> <a href="https://poets.org/2020-on-learning-to-dissect-fetal-pigs" rel="nofollow">https://poets.org/2020-on-learning-to-dissect-fetal-pigs</a> <a href="https://www.startribune.com/she-was-an-amazing-human-being-mother-identifies-woman-shot-killed-by-ice-agent/601559922" rel="nofollow">https://www.startribune.com/she-was-an-amazing-human-being-mother-identifies-woman-shot-killed-by-ice-agent/601559922</a> <hr> Where to donate: Monarca Rapid Response line <a href="https://monarcamn.org/" rel="nofollow">https://monarcamn.org/</a> <a href="https://givebutter.com/mntogether" rel="nofollow">https://givebutter.com/mntogether</a> <a href="https://monarcamn.org/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-south-high-school-families" rel="nofollow"></a> <a href="https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-south-high-school-families" rel="nofollow">https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-south-high-school-families</a> From <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ashley.a.p.horan/posts/pfbid0a3a3da41coi85JVMSZkPbK97GVa4eWGzG3wiEx7RGApo88QiKvs9ZyfBZAX1sMWsl" rel="nofollow">Ashley Horan</a>, UU clergy on the ground in Minneapolis: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ashley.a.p.horan/posts/pfbid041T5hNt4Ro7YV4BiDWjYL6vD88PzrtEn4HJB7YHhtvq311sjvC1utyCsDe9tBmt1l" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/ashley.a.p.horan/posts/pfbid041T5hNt4Ro7YV4Bi

CW for gun violence

In Memory of Renee Nichole Macklin Good

Show Notes Ep 4: More K-Pop with Rob Cunningham How does an experimental music aficionado become a K-pop fan? Always on the search for mind-blowing sound (see part one of his story in Epiosde 3), Rob reoriented to fun and living in the present during the pandemic. This led him to K-pop and its spectacular, dramatic audiovisual abundance. We talk about K-pop’s relationship to 80s music, Rob's favorite bands, originality, whiteness, politics, and joy as a compass. You can find playlists and reviews at his blog: <a href="https://theaquamarinelayer.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">https://theaquamarinelayer.blogspot.com/</a> Or on mastadon at: <a href="https://kind.social/@toblaveistobluff" rel="nofollow">@toblaveistobluff@kind.social</a> -- 1:54 Pandemic reset 5:10 Intro to K-pop via homeschool conference 9:53 Twice 19:48 Diving into the deep end 24:05 Connection to past music genres 28:34 Functional versus spectacle aesthetics 33:26 Girls Generation “The Boys” as a quantum leap 38:32 Fandoms and politics 47:54 K-Pop Dreaming podcast 53:32 Joy as a compass -- Key links K-pop homeschool: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kpophomeschool/" rel="nofollow">https://www.instagram.com/kpophomeschool/</a> Twice “Jelly Jelly”: <a href="https://youtu.be/WuLQ5iV3Q64" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/WuLQ5iV3Q64</a> Dreamcatcher: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD0FeZyDtQ" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD0FeZyDtQ</a> Red Velvet: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBnGBb1wg98" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBnGBb1wg98</a> Girls Generation “I got a boy”: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq7ftOZBy0E" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq7ftOZBy0E</a> About “I got a boy”: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230120020946/https://www.mtv.com/news/nol58l/girls-generation-i-got-a-boy-new-retro" rel="nofollow">https://web.archive.org/web/20230120020946/https://www.mtv.com/news/nol58l/girls-generation-i-got-a-boy-new-retro</a> K-Pop Dreaming Podcast: <a href="https://laist.com/podcasts/california-love" rel="nofollow">https://laist.com/podcasts/california-love</a> Maid: <a href="https://www.netflix.com/title/81166770" rel="nofollow">https://www.netflix.com/title/81166770</a> -- More links Ho

Part 2 of 2

1.4: More K-Pop with Rob Cunningham

Show Notes for Ep 3: Pure Sound with Rob Cunningham Rob has been searching for innovative, mind-blowing sounds ever since he was a little kid watching MTV in 1980s suburban Los Angeles. He tells his story of searching through rap, goth, metal, punk, industrial, electronic, experimental, 80s, and classical music. In part two we'll talk about kpop. You can find playlists and reviews at his blog: <a href="https://theaquamarinelayer.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">https://theaquamarinelayer.blogspot.com/</a> Or on mastadon at: <a href="https://kind.social/@toblaveistobluff" rel="nofollow">@toblaveistobluff@kind.social</a> -- 2:10 Thriller, Gangster Rap, Punk, Goth, Industrial, Electronic 5:53 Nine Inch Nails 7:45 Subcultures 14:08 Accessing music 18:11 Usenet, the changing internet, lull in the 2000s 22:02 “Have your kids shocked you with their music?” 26:55 KDVS radio 28:51 Losing a sense of direction in the musical archive 32:45 Pop sneaks in: 80s, Taylor Swift, and Spice Girls 40:22 Fandoms 44:20 The search for pure sound vs. big productions -- Key links Thriller: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson%27s_Thriller_(music_video)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson%27s_Thriller_(music_video)</a>Run DMC <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19tjJ0G-8V4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19tjJ0G-8V4</a> Nine Inch Nails <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7BQaaizlM" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak7BQaaizlM</a> Nurse with Wound <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efx5baXO-4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efx5baXO-4</a> Helene Grimaud <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujO9p1u70Ac" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujO9p1u70Ac</a> KDVS: (22-23) <a href="http://www.kdvs.org/" rel="nofollow">www.kdvs.org</a> Taylor Swift Reputation tour <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBk4xPhag-gT__wpprfT-7kTz7Wvl7oLF" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBk4xPhag-gT__wpprfT-7kTz7Wvl7oLF</a> Spice World <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_World_(film)" rel="nofollow">https://en.

Part 1 of 2

1.3: Pure Sound with Rob Cunningham

Who is a &quot;typical suburban mom&quot;? And what if they were never taught to people please? I talk to Sue Patterson about showing up authentically, partnering with your kids, and using your voice—even when it’s shaky. In many different spaces, from facebook groups to the school cafeteria, Sue meets people where they are, right now. Sue is a coach and podcaster whose website, Unschooling Mom2Mom, offers an accessible entry point for new unschooling families. 2:19: Defining unschooling 7:10 Journey to unschooling and living in the present 19:39 Sue’s background as an outspoken kid and psychiatric nurse 24:08 Changing culture by creating Unschooling Mom2Mom 41:33 Political speech and the typical suburban mom 58:28 Sue’s guiding principals Unschooling Mom2Mom <a href="https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/</a> Sue’s podcast with quick unschooling tips <a href="https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/podcast" rel="nofollow">https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/podcast</a> Sue’s substack <a href="https://unschooling.substack.com/" rel="nofollow">https://unschooling.substack.com/</a> Homeschooled Teens book <a href="https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/product/homeschooled-teens-book" rel="nofollow">https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/product/homeschooled-teens-book</a> Strewing calendar <a href="https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/strewing-calendars" rel="nofollow">https://www.unschoolingmom2mom.com/strewing-calendars</a> Home Education Magazine <a href="https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9625942W/The_Homeschool_Reader" rel="nofollow">https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9625942W/The_Homeschool_Reader</a> The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World as Your Child’s Curriculum Mary Griffith <a href="https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-unschooling-handbook-how-to-use-the-whole-world-as-your-child-s-classroom-mary-griffith/641440e51a6b16d8" rel="nofollow">https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-unschooling-handbook-how-to-use-the-whole-world-as-your-child-s-classroom-mary-griffith/641440e51a6b16d8</a> John Taylor Gatto <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto</a> Pam Sarooshian <a href="https://livingjoyfully.ca/blog/2016/01/eu002-ten-questions-with-pam-sorooshian/" rel="nofollow">https://livingjoyfully.ca/blog/2016/01/eu002-ten-questions-with-pam-sorooshian/</a>

Meeting people where they are, right now.

1.2: "Just People" with Sue Patterson of Unschooling Mom2Mom

How does deprogramming from a Christian Campus Cult in the 1980s connect with supporting parents as they navigate neurodivergence today? Delia Tetelman shares her story. Deprogramming didn’t stop with leaving the cult, it’s helped her with parenting, unschooling, mental health, and disability justice. Delia and I are part of the admin team for a free support group, Unschooling Every Family. The group helps families who are just beginning to learn about ableism and non-coercion. <a href="https://unschoolingeveryfamily.com/" rel="nofollow">https://unschoolingeveryfamily.com/</a> 2:17 What is Unschooling? 11:49 Delia’s background in a toxic family system and high control religion 20:48 Christian Campus Cult indoctrination in the 1980s 31:28 Deprogramming and the house of cards 46:05 Life after the cult 51:58 Reflective parenting 57:59 Neurodiversity and mentalization 1:09:28 The link between deprogramming and connection parenting Help with high control religion and coercive control: Steve Hassan’s “BITE model” <a href="https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/" rel="nofollow">https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/</a> National Domestic Violence hotline <a href="https://www.thehotline.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.thehotline.org/</a> Mentioned in this episode: Cults to Consciousness podcast <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/CultstoConsciousness" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/c/CultstoConsciousness</a> Maranatha <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maranatha_Campus_Ministries" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maranatha_Campus_Ministries</a> Peter Fonagy discussing mentalization on “The Life Scientific” <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dpj2" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dpj2</a> Reflective Parenting <a href="https://www.reflectivecommunities.org/what-is-reflective-parenting" rel="nofollow">https://www.reflectivecommunities.org/what-is-reflective-parenting</a> Reflective Communication in unschooling and/or neurodivergence <a href="https://unschoolingeveryfamily.com/start-here/4/#guide-3-connection-parenting-reflective-parenting" rel="nofollow">https://unschoolingeveryfamily.com/start-here/4/#guide-3-connection-parenting-reflective-parenting</a> Treating Personality Disorders in Children and Adolescents A Relational Approach by

How does deprogramming from a Christian Campus Cult in the 1980s connect with supporting parents as they navigate neurodivergence today? Delia Tetelman shares her story.

1.1: Non-Coercion: The Third Option with Delia Tetelman

<h1>Welcome to Untangling Ourselves</h1> What leads you in those moments when you realize, &quot;You must change your life&quot;? What joys, creative projects, values, or sense of purpose guide your next step and help you untangle yourself from bias and limiting beliefs? Coming soon. <a href="https://poets.org/poem/archaic-torso-apollo" rel="nofollow">Archaic Torso of Apollo</a>, by Rainer Maria Rilke

Stories about how curiosity, joy, and a sense of purpose guide us in changing our lives.

Welcome to Untangling Ourselves

Kaitlin Cunningham, PhD

Stories about making change--in ourselves and in culture--without coercion. Guests share how joy, curiosity, community, and a sense of purpose lead to unlearning, deprogramming, decolonizing, deschooling, and deconstructing how we live our lives and who we think we are. It's not just seeing what's wrong that leads to sustainable shifts--but seeing what's right. Topics including: non-coercive leadership, peaceful parenting, unschooling, feminism, leaving high control religion, neurodivergence, disability, donor conceived people, free Palestine, arts and music, local organizing, mutual aid, trans rights, children's rights, CPTSD, and toxic family systems.

About

Episodes