Tankred Hase has experience working with various Bitcoin and Lightning companies such as Lightning Labs and Swan previously. He joins me to talk about Bitcoin, Lightning and Liquid. We discuss some of the real world challenges and trade offs that builders and developers face, as well as the likely path forward from here. Summary Tankred discusses the current state of Bitcoin, Lightning, and Liquid development. He highlights the progress made in terms of user experience and liquidity. However, he also acknowledges the challenges that still need to be addressed, such as capital gains taxes, technical hurdles, and the need for more user-friendly solutions. Tankred emphasizes the importance of having multiple options for using Bitcoin as money, including custodial solutions, Liquid, and trust-minimized solutions like Fedimint. He also discusses the trade-offs involved in designing user-friendly Bitcoin and Lightning apps. Tankred and Stephan discuss the different trade-offs and options available in the Bitcoin ecosystem, particularly in the context of Lightning Network and Liquid. They highlight that while some Bitcoin enthusiasts prioritize non-custodial and pure Bitcoin solutions, many users, especially in regions like Dubai, Turkey, and South America, opt for custodial exchanges like Binance for their convenience. Tankred introduces StashPay, a solution that leverages the Breeze SDK and Liquid to offer lower fees for receiving payments. They also discuss the future of Lightning, including broader adoption of Bolt 12, asynchronous payments, and improved privacy for receivers. Takeaways Bitcoin and Lightning have made significant progress in terms of user experience and liquidity. There are still challenges to be addressed, such as capital gains taxes and technical hurdles. Having multiple options for using Bitcoin as money, including custodial solutions, Liquid, and trust-minimized solutions, is important for broader adoption. Designing user-friendly Bitcoin and Lightning apps requires making trade-offs and understanding the needs of different user populations. Users in the Bitcoin ecosystem have different preferences and priorities when it comes to trade-offs and options. Custodial exchanges like Binance are popular for their convenience, even among Bitcoin enthusiasts. StashPay, using the Breeze SDK and Liquid, offers a solution with lower fees for receiving payments. The future of Lightning includes broader adoption of Bolt 12, asynchronous payments, and improved privacy for receivers. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:43) - Current state of Bitcoin, Lightning, Liquid development (02:10) - Does the market support Bitcoin as a Medium of Exchange yet? (05:20) - What stops people spending/earning now?(18:42) - Sponsors (20:55) - Advancing Bitcoin as MoE (29:49) - Sponsors  (30:45) - Using Liquid and navigating skepticism around it (35:29) - What is StashPay?; Leveraging Breez SDK (43:00) - How does it compare with BtcpayServer (47:51) - Leveraging the economic density of Lightning Network Links:  https://x.com/tankredhase  https://blog.onionmill.com/p/introducing-stashpay-a-bitcoin-wallet  Sponsors: Bold Bitcoin CoinKite.com (code LIVERA) mempool.space/accelerator  Stephan Livera links: