Secession may seem like a dirty word, but it has happened many times in history and it’s worth understanding the political and economic benefits it can yield. Ryan McMaken, Executive Editor and Economist at the Mises Institute joins me to discuss his book, Breaking Away.  Summary In this conversation, Stephan and Ryan McMaken discuss the topic of secession and its advantages. They explore the historical and theoretical context of secession, highlighting the benefits of radical decentralization and the success of small, economically prosperous states.  They also examine the conditions that enable breakaway states, including economic factors, military power, and ethnic or nationalistic identity. The conversation emphasizes the need for people to come to terms with the reality that the federal government cannot offer long-term economic prosperity and that unity does not necessarily mean shared values or interests.  The conversation explores the challenges and potential solutions related to secession and breakaway movements. It discusses the negotiation process for exiting a larger government entity, the impact on national debt and pension obligations, and the historical examples of successful secession.  The conversation also touches on the Brexit movement and the potential for secession movements in the United States. It emphasizes the importance of developing competing elites at the state level and gradually asserting more local control over policies and resources. Takeaways Radical decentralization and the success of small, economically prosperous states are key advantages of secession. Breakaway states often emerge when the benefits of political unity no longer outweigh the benefits of separation. Conditions that enable secession include economic factors, military power, and ethnic or nationalistic identity. The federal government cannot guarantee long-term economic prosperity, and unity does not necessarily mean shared values or interests. Secession and breakaway movements require careful negotiation, especially regarding national debt and pension obligations. Historical examples show that debt write-downs and negotiations are common in secession processes. Brexit can be seen as a failure or a missed opportunity, depending on one's perspective. Competing elites at the state level can challenge the entrenched interests of the federal government. Gradual steps, such as asserting control over border policy and creating state-level institutions, can pave the way for secession. Developing local revenue sources is crucial to reduce reliance on federal funds and assert more autonomy. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:00) - What is Secession and why care about it?(05:25) - Why has the number of countries tripled since WW2?(09:00) - Why be Pro-secession? (14:45) - Pros & Cons of a ‘Large’ State; Political Decentralization  (19:28) - Sponsors (21:45) - Advantages of smaller countries (27:30) - Conditions that enable the pathway to Secession  (33:11) - Sponsors (41:07) - Dealing with Government Debt & obligations in a Secession (46:23) - Was Brexit a failure? (56:28) - Secession in the USA: A distant dream? (1:02:42) - Elites vs. Counter-elites (1:06:58) - Secession movements in the USA (1:15:39) - Closing thoughts  Links:  https://mises.org/profile/ryan-mcmaken https://mises.org/library/book/breaking-away-case-secession-radical-decentralizatio