Phishing simulations have been a cornerstone of security awareness training for years. But do they actually change user behavior, or are they just creating frustration and fatigue? In this episode, Tom Eston and Scott Wright (CEO of ClickArmor) debate whether simulated phishing attacks are still valuable in 2025. We cover the benefits, challenges, and how phishing programs might evolve — or even be replaced — in the future. ** Links mentioned on the show ** Find out more about ClickArmor! https://clickarmor.ca/ ** Watch this episode on YouTube ** ** Become a Shared Security Supporter ** Get exclusive access to ad-free episodes, bonus episodes, listen to new episodes before they are released, receive a monthly shout-out on the show, and get a discount code for 15% off merch at the Shared Security store. Become a supporter today! https://patreon.com/SharedSecurity ** Thank you to our sponsors! ** SLNT Visit slnt.com to check out SLNT’s amazing line of Faraday bags and other products built to protect your privacy. As a listener of this podcast you receive 10% off your order at checkout using discount code “sharedsecurity”. Click Armor To find out how “gamification” of security awareness training can reduce cyber risks related to phishing and social engineering, and to get a free trial of Click Armor’s gamified awareness training platform, visit: https://clickarmor.ca/sharedsecurity ** Subscribe and follow the podcast ** Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SharedSecurityPodcast Follow us on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sharedsecurity.bsky.social Follow us on Mastodon: https://infosec.exchange/@sharedsecurity Join us on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/SharedSecurityShow/ Visit our website: https://sharedsecurity.net Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://sharedsecurity.net/subscribe Sign-up for our email newsletter to receive updates about the podcast, contest announcements, and special offers from our sponsors: https://shared-security.beehiiv.com/subscribe Leave us a rating